Topic: Cool it

[jivedave]

Having recently read,  articles on the forum and noted the presence scientists and  'global moderators'  these offerings concerning climate change will be of interest to dancers I feel further justified in this assertion as I mentioned Dr. Axel whilst dancing (well that's what I call it) at Steve's soiree and my partner didn't walk off! (see, male multi tasking in action )

'baby you need coolin, i'm not foolin' – a whole lotta climate change. - i like cooler dances.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/weather/article6975867.ece

- don't be put-off by the US 'shock jock' (i thought he sounded like the doyen of that profession, Rush Limbaugh); Dr. Axel seems pretty level-headed.





The beauty of 'climate change' over the now archaic 'global warming' is that green taxes can be justified however the global temp changes, presumably.

Obviously, there are many vested interests with their 'fingers in the climate pie'

[MarkW]

Don't worry Dave. The inaction at world level means that you and all other climate change deniers will get the experiment you want. The limited supply of fossil fuels will be burned to produce the energy needed to support economic growth and consumption all round the world.

This will give us a bit of a problem if we haven't sorted out alternative energy sources. Will it also cause problems because of global warming/climate change? We are on target to find out - not in climate change models but in the real world that we all live in.

Fingers crossed then.

[Karen Mary]

Agree with Mark on that one!    

Dave - I didn't know I had the option to walk off, I'll bear that in mind next time 

[jivedave]

The idea of reducing consumption and dependency of/upon fossil fuels seems laudable but I don't see how cramming as many people as possible into this country and creating lots of froth economic activity will achieve that (whilst reducing productive capacity to the benefit of less advanced, less environmentally concerned competitors) If we face global apocalypse then let's turn Heathrow back farm land, etc.

People seem to be missing the point, accepting that I fear green taxes based upon ownership not usage. The videos were not  about a need or no need, to conserve resources but rather misinformation and the falsifying of data and vested interests. Josef Goebbels might approve of climate change and green taxes as fitting his 'big lie' concept (the bigger the lie – the more people believe it)

DId anyone have any views on the video content?

17/01/2010
I was going to make more of a production of this but here is what I see as the Carbon Con in action and being used to do real damage to UK interests and  at our own expense. I wonder how the people effected now view ex local MP s(Lord Mandelslime), TB (who okayed the take over – I bet that more than 30 pieces of silver changed hands) and that abomination, the EU

There are other portents of impending crisis caused entirely by the political fetish of carbon reduction. As noted in this column three weeks ago, the owners of the Corus steel company stand to gain up to $375m (£234m) in European Union carbon credits for closing their plant in Redcar, only to be rewarded on a similar scale by the United Nations’ Clean Development Mechanism fund for switching such production to a new “clean” Indian steel plant. That’s right: the three main British political parties — under the mistaken impression that CO2 is itself a pollutant — are asking us to vote for them on the promise that they are committed to subsidise the closure of what is left of our own industrial base. “”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/dominic_lawson/article6982310.ece

Yes, I'm sure standards will be raised by shipping the work to the sub continent but if the people responsible for  the following stunt, caused by ineptitude and indifference, had pulled it off in their own country they would have spent a very long time in the 'pen' or even been sat smoking in a chair.

here's what can happen when industrial production goes 'underground' :
http://www1.american.edu/ted/bhopal.htm

It could be that a sort of Morgenthau plan, originally aimed at emasculating post WW2 Germany – where the  country would be  denuded of its industrial capacity – is being implemented in the UK.

[jivedave]

Whilst scouring the net for more analysis and predictions from favourite doom/reality merchants (with an ‘off-message’ view, if anyone were interested), I came across a programme  re. something  which might(!) be the carbon free salvation of humanity (though the solution of one problem often creates another). The prog. speculates about vested interests and questions arise which parallel and touch on the climate change/environmental debate. I recall ‘cold fusion’ being anounced and reading further. Probably, like most people I can’t comment upon programme balance and the validity of the portrayal of ‘big science’ but the snippet of Hollywood’s take on the subject is interesting. The  actress scientist seems excited to a higher energy level – my ‘O’ level, lady physics teacher wasn’t quite like that.



As the programme is about water (or heavy water), here is a rousing piece of music from a land of lakes which I was pleased to ID yesterday, thanks to a radio quiz prog. – I recall that it was used to intro. A  TV news prog, years ago.




Surveying the other posts – anyone would think this a dance site – I hope to get along to Filton, Saturday. And just what does make for a good dancer…maybe saying one’s prayers?

[Matt E]

You're entitled to your opinion Dave, and I will respect that; I doubt that anything I say will ever change your views. But I don't agree with your beliefs or your argument, and I don't agree with what appears to be your motivation.

The very idea that it is appropriate to mention Josef Goebbels in the same sentence as climate science is well beyond what is reasonable. Even supposing that climate change is a complete lie designed to make certain groups huge amounts of money, it would hardly be in the same category of evil as vicious, lying anti-Semitic propaganda which was responsible for a wave of genocide resulting in the death of six million people. What you said was a gross insult to the scientific community at large, of which I consider myself to be a part, and I think that you ought to withdraw that comparison. 

I have noticed a pattern over the year that whenever a conspiracy theory is proposed there always seems to be a reference to Nazism or some other evil, as if mentioning it somehow shows an enlightened, educated, historical approach and gives an argument weight. However, most times it is utterly irrelevant and merely a scare tactic. I consider that when someone is reduced to hurling insults such as irrelevant references to Nazism then they have lost the argument.

Also, I don't think that the vested interests argument is enough to discredit the theory for two reasons. Firstly, due to human nature, every barrel will have it's rotten apples; that doesn't mean that pulling out a few of them is proof that the whole barrel is rotten and that the orchard should be burnt down. Secondly, there is still very little unequivocal evidence of vested interests in the climate science camp; certainly no more evidence than there is for vested interests in the oil companies! I feel that at the very worst both sides are as bad as each other and so there is nothing to be gained by 'mudslinging' each other. Let's bring this back to the issues for goodness sake.

The fact of the matter is, unless there's something about Dave that I don't know, he's not qualified to comment on the validity of the science. Neither am I; it isn't my area of expertise. Everyone has an opinion but not everyone's opinion is equal, depending on the subject. The people who's opinions count for most are the climate experts, and they are generally of the opinion that human activity is having an impact on the climate. These are not stupid people, easily deceived by conspirators. We should trust their judgement. When I see my patients, they will overwhelmingly accept my judgement of the diagnosis and the best treatment options, even though they may not feel that the proposed 'best option' is right for them. Similarly, when I take my car to a mechanic and he says that I need X, Y and Z doing I will trust his judgement as a qualified professional, and I would not think that I know better than he does! I'm sure you wouldn't think that you knew better than your doctor, or your plumber, or your car mechanic, Dave. So why do you think that you know better than climate scientists? You are in danger of sounding like a play by George Bernard Shaw.

Maybe this will post will be read by people 30 years from now in a future where climate change has been proven to be a lie, and they will say, "Listen to that hysterical, whining greenie! He was taken in; what a fool!" I can live with that. I couldn't live with a situation where our generations had lived a lifestyle that had ravaged the world's natural resources and  desecrated the environment to such an extent that the lives of our children would be ruined. Besides, there are other reasons to look towards green energy apart from climate change, such as energy security and economic growth.

Trust is part of what holds the fabric of society together. Let's see a little more of it please.

[jivedave]

thanks for your comments Matt. Just a some brief points (got to get up and ride my PEDAL bike to work tomorrow ) I merely mentioned JG as he was/is regarded as the master of propaganda. I was perhaps being a little flippant in doing that in view of the ideology of the regime.

I don't generally subscribe to 'conspiracy theories' but am willing to listen to the arguments - as is the case with the climate change debate.

In view of the economic situation, I think one is right to question decisions made on the basis of speculative climate change which affect the lives and employment of many of  our countrymen/women.

Here's what I recall a book 'limits to growth' - many years ago - concluded was the biggest threat to mankind/the planet:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

Anyhow - on a lighter note - some greater power 'decided' that merely shutting Heathrow (could have implications for vital conferences on paradise islands ) wasn't enough and so here's a track which combines the event with dancing:


Can't say I was as bothered as i perhaps should have been as i don't tend to have my victuals flown in and my passport expired a few years ago. I take the point about trust but 'just because one is paranoid, etc...'

09/05/10 - something relating to propaganda
 
I'm trying avoid posting - other things to do but as for motivation : obviously because it's there . Just like the 20+kg rock and heavy pieces of fencing on the cycle PATH i moved while the more physically able ignored - either they don't care or have no imagination.

Complain to Gerry; he mentions the arch propagandist (21:05)   . I don't see this as conspiracy theory though it's a bit of a rant. I find the interviewer  quite soothing but with a penchant for stating the inanely obvious and Gerry, as a New Yorker, perhaps, has a wonderfully sarcastic take on things though the thrust of the interviews seem to dissipate as they progress.

Gerry has a pretty (very) doom laden view of the future but his predictions of more economic problems and terrorism (like Times Square) seem to be materialising.

Gov. teaming up with rich and greedy manipulators, (such as ***) on the climate debate - me cynical, too right.



*** - maybe naming individuals is not such a good idea, especially here in the land where lawyers like to action their libel cases. Being 'small fry' hopefully no one would bother and being the 'grey man' is quite nice and less expensive (I'm still trying to make a start at understanding Dirac's book which I think will bring some personal satisfaction, have they introduced a thought tax yet?  - he wanted to decline the Nobel prize, to avoid the 'fuss' - i don't know if that was incredible arrogance or genuine detachment )